25 February 2012

A valid argument of sorts....



Please note that the following emails have not been altered in any way with the exception of the initials. "X" has some valid points and as this person is a trusted, very intelligent friend, this post is not meant, in any way, to make the author of the original email seem anything but. It is simply another way to look at things and my arguments for and against the claims within.


O,

This email is meant to be taken in a conversational tone.

This posting confuses me.  When you write that you can't be lumped in with agnostics and then follow with a line that says you believe in nothing, it seems to me an inference that agnostics believe in something.  Some do, but the vast majority that I've come across, personally or in media, do not. 

I'm agnostic and I believe in nothing so hardcore that I don't even believe God is non-existent (in concept, though I do believe that a Muslim or Christian God does not exist), and I don't believe in the big bang either.  Some agnostics do believe in God (called agnostic theists or something), but they are usually not religious or feaful of God. 

You write that you're happy to live life devoid of religion and higher powers, but the existence of the blog posting itself contradicts this to some degree.  I've also heard you bring it up several times in conversation.  One of the reasons I don't consider myself atheist is because atheists spend so much time getting upset about and discussing something they claim to have no interest in. 

Another reason is that they often ironically hold beliefs that also cannot be proven (usually cosmological) that are nearly as ridiculous - in a factual sense mostly, but sometime logically too - as Flying Spaghetti Monsters. 

One who truly can't be arsed is arguably better described as agnostic or perhaps ... I forget the proper term ... something like apathatheist (from apathetic and atheist).

The part where you write why atheism is not the same as Satanism suggests to me that you're saying Satanists actually believe in Satan.  The vast majority do not.  Those who do are typically actually Wiccan or something of that sort (basically believing in spirit forces but not God & Satan, an example being King Diamond), or Luciferian (I think they actually believe in Satan, but I can't recall so I'm guessing a bit on this one). 

The only actual Satanic Church, whose members often refer to the Satanic Bible as a guide, which is arguably what most self-described satanists today associate with, expressly does not believe in God or Satan or any spirits.  Ironically they often use the same logical line as you did, that if they don't believe in God then it's silly to suggest they actually believe in a Satan or hell. 

Rocking for light in Coptiic times,

X.

My response to this...


Then we shall do just that..

The definition of Agnostic is this: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god. Atheist is defined as the following: one who believes that there is no deity. "I believe in absolutely nothing and am quite happy with my decision to lead a life completely devoid of religion and higher powers." So I believe there is no deity which is what "absolutely nothing" referred to. More often than not, Agnostics are actually Atheists but are too fearful of the repercussions to actually admit they are. They end up taking a position of ignorance toward the whole thing in order to avoid the whole discussion.

In regard to me discussing the subject, it is something that completely fascinates me. Not so much the religion itself, but the impact it has on modern civilisation. It angers me more often than not as people that don't care either way or don't believe are 1. made to feel they are evil because of their doubt or ambivalence and 2. end up having to live in a society that is governed by religion. Religion is everywhere and we cannot escape it; law, government, schools, money, hospitals and so on and so and so on. I feel that ultimately, religion can be blamed for the destruction of so many civilisations over the centuries. The only thing, in my opinion, that can even compete with the carnage caused by religion is money.

It's not that Atheists have no interest in the subject matter, we are just tired of it being thrown in our faces. As I understand it, true Agnostics are the ones that have no interest in theology, real or not. There seems to be a lot of grey area here and just like religion, there are many subsects within the Agnostic camp. If one is an Atheist, you don't believe, that's it, no room for discussion unless we are debating and then by all means, bring it on.

As far as proof of certain theories, you are right, there is most definitely unproven science out there but there are some things that are irrefutable (dinosaurs, evolution) that the religious camps refuse to even consider and when they do, it still goes back to an almighty creator of some sort. Why the hell would somebody purposely create a tapeworm? What about viruses? Most viruses live in their host without issue.  Pathogenesis is evidence of something gone amiss, a mutation or the accidental movement of genes, and not evidence of a system deliberately designed to cause human disease and suffering. So if it was not designed as so many think, this would lead one to conclude there is no creator. That is only one example.

With Satanism, there are again various subsects. You are right when you say they don't truly believe in a satan per se but more the values that he would instill upon us. Satanism is truly one of the more realistic religions but it is still a religion. Once again, it is a group of sheeple, following one person that claims to know the truth. Further to that, once again, the subsects are the ones that garner the attention and create havoc and destruction.

"Religion is like your genitals, of great interest to you personally, but something nobody else should have to deal with unless they want to."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vmeGfvxYGE

O.



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